Full Auto-Transcript

[00:00:00] Hi. Welcome to the Cult and boutique show. Joining me today via Putney Bridge to collect a ’66 Chateau Latour jeroboam

[00:00:12] It’s none other than Mark Robertson head of Dreweatt’s wine department. Mark, thanks for joining us. How are you today?

[00:00:17] Very well. A pleasure to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

[00:00:19] You’re more than welcome. So let’s get to it. How did your passion for wine begin?

[00:00:26] How did it begin? I think it’s always quite hard to admit. Actually.

[00:00:33] I can still remember my father being given two bottles when I was pretty young. I must be 10 or something. And it was a Lafite and a Talbot, and I remember him letting us try them.

[00:00:50] And I was terrible to say. It’s like something missing.

[00:00:54] And I remember liking it sounds quite pretentious, but I remember liking the Lafite more than the Talbot. I still remember it. I also remember being dragged around France as a child. The back of the car. And, you know, we used to drink a lot of Mombazillac. Well, why Father Well, my Mother didn’t really drink much. But, you know, it was just sort of peaked an interest in that. And, you know, I started working after university. I started working for Justerini & Brooks, which was a great place to learn the trade myself. And it just opened up so many opportunities that you wouldn’t have in smaller merchants or.

[00:01:38] And it was really it was before the time of, you know, joining for the time you were talking about wine investment and all those things. It really was just all about wine and that all the director’s lunches upstairs. And so we got to try the most fabulous wines. I think our managing director at the time to go back to Latour.

[00:02:03] I think he I don’t know what vintage it was, how bad it was that much.

[00:02:08] But he actually it was seventy-six, seventy-six Latour. And would he like to do is he’d have a number of lunches, a repetitive week, and he would get quite sort of stuck in too few cases. And there was always quite a lot left over. So we just had the opportunity then to drink things that no one aged 20, 21 would nowadays joining the trade would ever have or can, even afford. So it was quite hard to break away from if I wanted to do something else, but it was a great company to to to cut your teeth in a major St James’s bounce and change the street. Yeah, I know what it’s like now. I haven’t I have friends still there, but everyone does different things. I think they’re still pretty good. I think.

[00:02:57] I think so. I think so. Yeah, I think so. But some. All right. So more focus on Dreweatt’s that build a great reputation, auctioning from coins, arts, antiques, et cetera. Do you find that you have a large crossover of buyers? No. What do most people buy wines. Who are buying wines tend to know what they’re looking for?

[00:03:21] We don’t have a huge crossover of buyers between us and the other departments that we’re trying to sell. We’re trying to look at more. It’s you know, there’s things like watches and things like that I’ve always felt was more Cinergy collectors you could always call luxury goods. Certainly for the vandal’s, yes, there’s a crossover. You know, people have selling big houses and, you know, there’s always a seller under the furniture, so to speak. Yes. Been buyers. No. The buyers tend to be focussed on wine and wine. But, you know, that’s not to say we or we should be doing more to encourage people to. We used to tell me that with Christi’s that the wine puzzle, if you’re a successful lab. But when Christy started to really slim down and you just have impressionists, old masters and jewellery and, you know, not all the sort of smaller departments that they kept wine King Street because it always used to bring in new buyers for other departments. It was a good it was a good book. Yes. Yeah. So. And particularly for the Asian market as well.

[00:04:43] It was always nice to draw people in, but that was also like salvages philosophy. He would always and even today, when you go to you got Smar blotched guys on the street.

[00:04:55] One thing that they’re big on is the window display because you just lure people in. And the guy knows that exoticism about the way people just a walk that looks beautiful. The what is the label? The large Bussel formats. How the presents and the lights. And naturally, those bring people in. Yeah, definitely. I saw. All right. And you’ve been involved in the wine industry for over about 20 years now. Yeah.

[00:05:17] Yeah, yeah. Okay. So you think about on my way off the shelves, I was asked that question and I think, yeah, it is about 20 years.

[00:05:24] I mean, my first on Primmer vintage was was the 2000, my real sort of one that I called it fenceless visit. So because I was just thinking how it’s sort of anticipating what I might be asked about, things that I just think of when you look back at these on prevention, you can sort of track your career from all the data these days.

[00:05:47] Not at all. He says, like it? Yeah, it’s definitely. But it seems Housum was special. Yeah, very.

[00:05:55] Yeah. It was a game changer, I think, in terms of, you know, it was when people really started to look at wine as an investment. But it’s something like a little bit more than just boxes.

[00:06:10] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So obviously, from when you started off with it, we know you’ve tried to do it now, but you you touched upon it. You started off as just the RENIE. What has been your journey in between just Iranian jurists up till now?

[00:06:25] Very much.

[00:06:26] Should have based sort of private clients. I. So I spent a long time with justices. I looked after them before they had an office in Hong Kong. I looked after the the Hong Kong and Japanese business. And then we had a nother couple of guys who worked after the Singapore business. That was when Hong Kong was very different wine market. It is now, you know, when I was there going out there and travelling and there was 80 percent tax and I never got the luxury of working out there.

[00:07:07] When it went down to 40 and then they they abolished.

[00:07:12] And I mean, it was initially when I had a big client that who was the financial secretary who had an extraordinary collection of wine. And I said, well, what are we going to do about this, a set tax? And he said, well, you know, while I’m in charge, like, I can’t bring the tax down because it’s going to look suspicious.

[00:07:37] I think later on it got something to do with his home sort of building an extension or something, which they’re very strict. But he was he was a charming man and. But so, yeah, that was. So I spent a lot of time working on those clients. I then did.

[00:07:56] Well, let’s take a break. I, I just needed a change. I, she, I needed I’m sort of getting slightly bored of London and and I had an opportunity to go work for Emirates Airlines doing that, drink over that, looking after that export side within the regions. So the dry countries, diplomatic missions, the islands, you know, the Maltese and those places in Zanzibar and those sort of areas and hotel groups. And I was there for a year. It wasn’t actually how I envisaged it would be. It was it was it was out of my comfort zone. I enjoyed it. But it was a very different environment. And I sort of took the decision that, you know, I stay and, you know, not come back for a long time and really stick it out or had the opportunity to come back and work for good house and company us who very similar set up to just really breaks quite a lot of sort of refugees from just really Brits in terms of staff. I knew them well. And yeah, it was it was it was the right move. And so I’m doing very much. But it was so much more on the broking side than straight.

[00:09:21] Private clients is great. Great company, actually. So that was that. And then a few years ago, I took the plunge to start my own business. To say I was sick of the commute. And then luckily so I started my business, which is great. And then this opportunity with Dreweatts came up to work in tandem with it and completely separate. I keep buying the thing. If a client comes to me through Dreweatts, you know, I would never think all that could do for my company. You know, that it’s a clean break down the middle. So I still do private.

[00:10:00] I have the auction site on the streets of Southeast Asia. They they changed the market.

[00:10:09] Quite a major way. I remember. All right. Rights was going over to Hong Kong as an example. At the time, there were collapses. He just wanted to have ten thousand pound bosso at the time of the mine that a Romney concert. And he wants it placed above his fireplace. I said, well, what? Why do you want that? If you keep it, then you to put the fire on, it’s going to ruin it. I don’t care. It shows who I am, shows what I’m what I’m about, who I know. I’ve got access to stuff that my other, you know, colleagues or, you know, business rivals or whatever don’t have access. And I remember seeing this one article on China Daily USA, which was Show me your show me your Ferrari and I’ll show you my wine cellar. And again, just so much wealth was just being, you know, made, you know, the people making these private by citizen spending a million, two million U.S. dollars and then just filling up with a lot of fine wines. So and it still seems to be that way. Tastes do seem to have changed. Which companies? On to the next question. Like some see for ourselves, we’ve we’ve seen that the way markets have evolved considerably and in the time which you’ve been involved. Again, what changes have you’ve seen in terms of tastes? I guess, again, market used to be bought. I bought I bought I almost to a large degree. Have you seen much difference from beyond Bordeaux or would you say Bordeaux still king?

[00:11:43] Definitely. Bordeaux reigns supreme. And I think always will. It’s going to age. So I do think anything can knock it off its nuthatch. Nothing. You know, there’s the the only pretend to it’s thrown, but it’s such a small region. Comparison is the Tuscan wines. And they are trying to emulate Bordeaux anyway, so. Yeah, well the super Tuscans unfair on just realised that. But the Bordeaux blend is shown to the only people that I think you can. And they just don’t have the production. And that’s the thing with Bordeaux, is it? It it has the production. It does. And you know, when you’re looking at certainly the top end and if you look you’re looking at a first growth. And the volume now, what is it now? 10000 cases to normal vintage. There used to be used 21, 30, I think. 82 Laffite and the tool made 30, 35 miles. That’s right. But it’s still 10000 cases. A lot is a lot of wine. Of wine at that price point. Whereas a Californian equivalent would be five hundred cases in some cases. So Bordeaux will always be king because it has that critical mass. And I think, you know, with you know, that’s one of the reasons why not just because Bordeaux is board. But when it first took off in Asia, having that volume on the market allowed people to buy it. You know that. Which is why Burgundy didn’t take off so quickly when people were coming into the wine market. If there were any 30 cases available of something you didn’t really know much about, but you knew that the label was instantly recognisable. And the reputation was that much easier to go into that.

[00:13:45] But obviously, since we’ve seen burgundy prices skyrocket, go insane. I think in house prices, some instances, yeah.

[00:13:54] I mean, we put a a magnum of 85 riche Borg by Gire in the next election.

[00:14:05] And I saw one had sold at Sotheby’s last week or report last Mitali. It was from originally from Shiers original seller that was sold in 2012 or something. So the problem was fantastic. And that sold in Asia for me to house prices. Four hundred thirty eight thousand pounds.

[00:14:25] And that is house price. Yes, it is.

[00:14:29] And you know, so the prices have gone. But, you know, as you were saying before about the man with the thing on his mantelpiece saying this is what I’ve got. You know, if you buy a bottle of wine. Four hundred thirty five thousand pounds. I mean, then obviously, I you know, we’re in a you’re an important client of mine. I can tell you exactly how much you’re worth to me.

[00:14:57] Shop with a bottle of wine. In a subtle way. Absolutely. And in a classy way, too, of course. Yeah, of course.

[00:15:04] There’s nothing brash about that’s Natalie brash about it.

[00:15:06] So, you know, they’re they’re all. Yeah. I mean, there are some prices, if I can be, I think things like a lot of Premier Cruise. Now, I think that I think they’re expensive what they are. But my mind is still sort of 10 years ago, wine prices wise with Burgundy were a good borgo and should be 12 quid. No, no, no. Absolutely. But in terms of I mean, we’ve seen the changes. So many changes. So many changes.

[00:15:37] And but Bordeaux is still Ordos can feel.

[00:15:41] Right. Without question.

[00:15:42] Without without question. Okay. Now, you might not want to answer this, and that’s far enough Bialosky. Anyway, it was reported by the I Bloomberg South China Morning Post of a major financial outlets. The firm used to represent Emirates Vested. Half a billion dollars in the fine wine initiative.

[00:16:04] Know all about it. They’re all about it for sure.

[00:16:07] And 2005 with that when they first went with a blank cheque.

[00:16:10] Wow. Because they got a 2005 vintage. Right. It’s not bad. Starts off with a fiver.

[00:16:17] But what is their strategy? Purely okay. What is the best form we can serve on the plane or as it will say? Well, we can see that wine does have a decent appreciation year on year. You got, of course, the right price, brand representation, et cetera, et cetera. In your opinion, again, if you don’t want to come in, they need to. Are they looking at it from a purely consumption standpoint or do you think that they’re also looking at. Okay, well, 100 million has appreciates it. First, he foresees some less sell, some of that on maybe balance. The books with the losses were made through Psychoville 19, whatever. Yeah. That’s also use some of that money to replenish our sallerson.

[00:17:01] I can’t comment on what they’re doing now when I was there. And the reason why they bought the 05 vintage was was consumption. The only way to really sell it was on an aeroplane. So I can’t get rid of it. I mean, the volumes were extraordinary. I have to say, you know, I looked at the spreadsheet numerous times, valued it, some of it.

[00:17:25] I think there was always, you know, there was always an idea that if it could make money, I think, why not? But the volumes were. Yeah, they were mine. Like, they they went to a fire. They’d never. They must bought a little bit before here and there. But they came into Bordeaux in the 2005 vintage, sort of like, you know, in Latin writing three.

[00:17:52] I mean, they read it with their chequebooks open and. And but most me I think it really was it was it was to drink on the aeroplanes. You know, they saw the market there. They were also increasing. 05 was still relatively young for Emirates then. You know, Emirates didn’t know. I don’t know how big it is. Terms of planes flying these days compared to them. But but I remember once I was sort of tasked to go out, didn’t have they didn’t have things like Patris or anything like that run on their books. You know, they couldn’t even have a bigger cheque, but they still couldn’t break into that that’s or that sort of terrorist show. A lot of first grace and a lot of second grace and things. But yeah, I mean, was it impressive? But I was tasked to once on their inaugural flight from Emir.

[00:18:43] From from Dubai to New York non-stop.

[00:18:48] And they wanted to serve 82 Petreus in first class. That was there. You know, this is what’s the best way.

[00:18:57] Well, if you really want to make a eighty 82 patch, go crazy.

[00:19:04] So we bought didn’t have any patches in the sell off that we bought it from the UK and but every time I bought a case the price went up by eight percent I think. I can’t remember the exact figures show, you know, the three cases we bought, you know, Patreus. This is not an easy way. It was Delford. I can’t remember it. It was I mean, it probably looks cheap now. Yeah. Yeah. So they did buy, but that’s the sort they weren’t saving petrusich you two on every flight. But, you know, you could probably you’ll be certainly be getting on first class, you know, you’ll get a lot of grumpy costs, you get a lot of Lynch. Bowles was famous for Cathay Pacific, wasn’t it. That’s Lenth Lynch Barge got its name because it was always served and got his name. It got its name in Asia. Right. And they like it because it was it was served in Cathay first class. There was quite a small talk of me. But, you know, you would be drinking up to second grace, quality and kindness now. Yeah. I’m not sure. First, grace in first class. The first grace they had met may have been earmarked for dessert.

[00:20:14] Just little quick sign. I mean, do wines taste? Because, again, it’s a common question that gets asked to me when I mention this to its clients. But the wines taste differently on a on the plain when they’re competitive.

[00:20:30] No, I do feel like they do. Yeah. So they do fit.

[00:20:33] I don’t know. I think it’s. Yeah, perhaps they do. I’m not sure.

[00:20:37] I think when we can start find out France, we should say first class.

[00:20:41] And I find that yeah. We find that there is an easy way, the easy way to find that out. Exactly. A lot of it is probably that you fully get served in tiny little glass. Exactly half muscles.

[00:20:51] Yeah, there’s probably an argument that does. I’m not saying I have heard it, but it’s not like I sort of dug into a lot of things, said take off the list for the USA.

[00:21:02] Definitely. Definitely.

[00:21:03] All right. So let’s fast forward to John and Juris. Yeah. You did touch upon it. Besides your your your business before you decided to have this opportunity to work with jurors. But how did the opportunity come about?

[00:21:20] It came about purely because a client of mine, Duritz, was going through a lot of changes. They’d just been bought, bought by a company called God Jones. And I think there were big staff shake ups. And I think they were the business was changing and they didn’t have a wine specialist. And I think at that stage, I think hed left it in a way is gone. My client find out 20, enter some wine into trips. And they came back and said, oh, we don’t really know what’s going on with wine department at the moment.

[00:21:54] So he said when you just give him ring and see if there’s anything. And, you know, I went around, business can be up and down and school fees and things were looming. And I thought, you know what? Nice bit of extra income, if I can do it. And I had actually long before just Reen is just just straight out to university, just waiting, looking for ravelled I want to do. I did work Christi’s for a bit just to help him out.

[00:22:27] So, so I knew and I like the auction world and I knew it. I thought you know what. I called them up and I said, I understand you need a bit of help at the moment, sorting out sort of the mess that was left behind in the wine department. And I didn’t put it like that. And they said it. I mean, it was the easiest, quickest interview I’ve ever had in my life. And so I got there. And Diane, who I worked with, is just absolutely fantastic. And I think we just we just looked to put it happened over last year as if it got us so much potential here. And with the support of Joe Johns and there’s so much potential here, but we just need to sort out this mess. So we and I didn’t even know if I was just gonna stay two days, two weeks, two months, whatever turned into whatever was three years.

[00:23:18] And I just it just sort of reminded me how much I like the auction. Well. Yes. And it was I’d likes sorting out something that needed sorting out. That’s what got really enjoyment. So we’ve sort of hopefully turned it round into a a proper shelf wine department within one mile.

[00:23:41] A couple of questions down the line that we’re going to get answered on. And that’s going to be a reflection of, again, a lot of the hard work you’ve been put to then.

[00:23:47] Yeah, but before we get to that point, I’ll see. You mentioned you love the auction room. It is it is a magical place, magical place. And it can be a very high energy, ambitious environment. What is it you enjoy about conduction auctions?

[00:24:06] I, I know, actually, I’d like.

[00:24:11] I mean, I, I’ve never conducted any other auction apart from a wine auction. I quite like that. There’s something about being in control of.

[00:24:25] I don’t know. I just. I’ve never thought about. I enjoy it. I think it’s a real honour to be up there. I think it’s it’s it’s it’s a nice office. It’s a great opportunity be given to do my skill, to have you know, it’s you can teach yourself, you know, it’s good for listening. It’s good for your maths.

[00:24:45] Yes. The numbers are always good for me.

[00:24:50] And I think it’s yeah, it’s it’s sort of fair to count massive good fun.

[00:24:56] It’s the class of as well then. Yeah. Because. Tonight, kind of money, they want to fill those times. Yeah. Absolutely, yeah.

[00:25:05] You cannot be afraid of of dealing with large figures from these people because, like you said, it’s not confidence that gives them the confidence to want to know that they’re buying from the right person and the right firm. So I imagine you’ve you’ve definitely been the pass of some of some of these famous bidding wars that we’re all the customers. I say we but people in the industry are accustomed to. Ha. How can you sense when there’s going to be a bidding war? Is it. What is the sourcing clients? How do you know, as you know, big spender? Or there could be like a friendly rivalry between sellers and clients. How was it when you know that there was a certain wine or wines which has been on the waiting list where a client says he? Right. Mark, we’re off to on a shovel blong two thousand or Luffler nine 10, I say. But, you know, you’ve got several other bidders interested and you know, they’re going to be there on that day. Can you sense it from that moment onwards?

[00:26:03] Or is it really when I think you said it from the book you see on the book and the bids on the book? You know, obviously this year there’s been no auctions in the room. Everything everything has been, although we can hold an online auction like a life auction like this, it’s all been via the Internet and commission bids set for this for this sort of top hand wines. You know, the the actual the real the bidding war does take place on the book and online. And the room bidding, certainly at Duritz tends to be much more for drinking wines. I eat a good Bordeaux, Schonberg and shellfish. So things I’ve never experienced been in a room taken in an auction where you’ve got, you know, two people trying to, you know, go, go, go.

[00:27:01] I mean, I’ve been in auctions when they. That has never held one myself. Far, far.

[00:27:07] But I think there is a there is always that certainly that case, the two people who know each other can be that element of it.

[00:27:20] And certainly in sort of when you do evening auctions, when there’s a little bit of drink flowing, that is probably that’s yes.

[00:27:30] That’s what happens when the matter at an eleven o’clock in the morning, on the very day.

[00:27:36] That’s a bit more like an affinity for that. All right.

[00:27:42] But I’d love to be a part of it one day once we get back to normal and we can. Know we’ve got many plans when it comes to auctions, the wine auction. So over the next couple of years. So hopefully we’ll be doing more of those sort of evening things that perhaps we can people’s.

[00:27:59] All right. So only last month. Andrew, it’s I don’t know how you guys manage still here, you know, but you are able to acquire a bottle of Screaming Eagle. Mighty nice. Say, I believe from when I said what I know is the first thing she ever made was one of only free one of the free bottles available in the global market. How did you how did you want to get that number one? But also, what was what was the sound like for that? Well, that’s for sale.

[00:28:29] It was it was fantastic that that bottle. It’s it. They are tricky to sell screaming eagles. You know, they are they have that price. They’re the sort of things that you might see in hedonism. Yes. I think they bought a Magnum for the same wine for forty thousand quid sort of thing that you will see on a shelf there for crazy money. To me, I think we value to sort of seven, eight, nine thousand pounds for that bottle. I always believe those things. You have to aim for the stars for the first time and you might get lucky. We didn’t sell it. That auction, actually. Sadly, we sold we had a bottle of white which sold two and a half thousand long. So, yeah, that’s the 2013, which is that first vintage of seven blocks to make one barrel of the stuff. So it’s Rovera says it was a bottle of the saving you all. But I did want to sort of aim for the stars with the red. It’s going into our next auction actually at a bit less, sort of four to five, which I think was probably the right price. But, you know, I didn’t. I didn’t. Well, I. I didn’t want to undersell it, not having sold a lot of screaming eagle in my life. Absolutely. Ready. Set. You know, for people who don’t know it, it’s it’s the cult cabernet sauvignon yourself from Napa Valley and.

[00:29:59] And 92 is, what, just the flagship motorcycle car owned by Stan Cranky. Chrome car. Nice. It’s marvellous for sure. I’m even seeing while on a wine spectator school, albeit it was a charity auction, but that was a I believe it was. It may have even been a car bomb is a 60s or only was expensive whatever.

[00:30:22] Sold half a million dollars for a road. Crazy even for charity auction.

[00:30:27] That’s a lot of money for one. So, yeah, I’d have to say skip to that space. All right. Fair enough. But some. Okay.

[00:30:34] So for yourself, your past personal preference, is there a particular vintage and brand that you would love to. Aside from the. When I say that you would love to get your hands on to have the pleasure of selling. So that’s something you can say on your on your CV if you wish. Right. I’ve sold this.

[00:30:52] I like a domain that a Romney can see 45 or moves on 45 or Lappin 82 or shovel blong 47. Are there any of those that lodges those examples? But any of his other voice felt right. I would love to be able to deal with that.

[00:31:08] Well, as you know, several 40s, I’d love to find a perfect case of Chavel 47. I don’t think they exist. Actually, I’m not convinced. I mean, that would be the Holy Grail because you actually see 47 Chavel pops up quite a bit. Not chassé bottles. Normally Mirch and bottled and that they’re never a particularly good condition. You know, they’re they’re not as rare as people think. 47 Chavel. It’s something I’d love to try. I mean, that would be something quite that bad. I just don’t think you get that. It just doesn’t exist. I think where would you like to sort of really delve into. When we got some 45 coming up in the next Excel, I mean, that’s a vintage that has that sort of romantic notion to use as a celebration of vintage. But I think she did say that Chevron 47, I think if I could find some of that, I would be, which is without question, in great condition. And people would wear the right provenance. I think when you hear get a bidding war, something like that, all sorts of records. Yeah, definitely. Whatever the debate is, whatever the chateau have tucked away that they will never it’ll never come out. And it’ll be history. Yeah. Yeah. That’s part of their history. I’d love to know how much that got if they have.

[00:32:42] Well, you never know. No, no, no. I mean that to me is the iconic wine.

[00:32:47] And it was meant to still be young.

[00:32:50] Now, this is also a good few years. And I just got big scores and big reputations. I see. But I’m all right.

[00:32:58] So I was nineteen hundred Margaux. If you could find if you could find something.

[00:33:05] Yeah. I’d love to try. Yeah. Of these about the classic they want though. Yeah I remember. I think there was even norten several years gone on. Lafitte’s already from the start of some of 18, 70s and 80, 90 fives and whatnot and the likes of the historic and people would buy it from that standpoint. And I even like shipwrecked champagne and things. And that’s, that’s a quote.

[00:33:28] And that’s the beauty of auction. You know, those are the things that come your way that wouldn’t necessarily go, you know, ship, you know, things that been under the Barents Sea for however long and. Yeah, exactly. And.

[00:33:41] But then as you talk about that, that’s sort of going off tangent, I think, Margot, and champagne houses. But I think Chateau Margaux not only. They are experimenting screw caps, Astra, but they’re also experimenting with ageing that wide underwater.

[00:33:59] Oh, yeah. Well, once bottle that I’ve ever heard. Yeah. Actually comes the temperature. Well yeah. That should be interesting to see before they put the labels. Yeah.

[00:34:08] Yeah. Hopefully the provenance. Okay.

[00:34:13] In terms of in terms of, you know, countries we mentioned of course, Southeast Asia. And I’ve seen a number of your auctions held in Newbury, London, et cetera. What country, in your opinion, is leading the way in terms of buying up the prime lots of these ultra wines. And also what’s been the most surprising location of any recent buys? And what I me but I will be like a country like winning bid was won in Brazil or in Mexico.

[00:34:44] Well, Brazil is your first we we’ve been selling to Brazil, funnily enough, which in recent auctions in the last three auctions, we’ve had more more clients coming from Brazil I’m sorry, Syngenta, that they Brazilian. I guess this might be an ominous the actual Aboriginals and they have been shipped out to Brazil. They’re not keeping them here. They’re getting the US is always massive. Yeah, yeah. People forget about it. But it is I mean, you know, the US market well, but it is a huge market that, you know, most a lot of UK merchants don’t do a huge amount with it, with the US auction houses do. Yes. But they I don’t think people read. But, you know, you the UK has always looked towards looked east rather than west. And you. Yeah, I’m not saying that there was no trade show in the UK and the US, but predominantly, predominantly, they’ve always looked, they’ve looked east. I remember one very well known merchant. I think he did East a huge amount of business in America that was we’ll both know who they are. That and the market dropped off in America and they replaced it and then never looked back with Macao, but didn’t bother going back to America. Health Crisis kept their business embracing area. So America’s I think, you know, there’s lots of Asia will always be. Beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. Interested in why I think China has been a more difficult market, I think, than it had been. I think they people got their fingers burnt in the 2010 vintage, bought massively. And when there’s a lot of cancelled orders now that whole of the world, Singapore is a great market for everything. You know, they have such an eclectic taste and it’s had much the high taxes in place like Vietnam. It’s just holding that back. What’s going to happen? Same with Australia. And they have their own wine. India. Yes. 300 percent tax. And they’re making the right one. They don’t have the restaurant culture that it’s just people can talk about. I bet there’s some very wealthy Indians with some wonderful salads. But who knows how that. So the actual you know, none of the big countries is sending the. And I have made any real indents into the fine wine market. It is still Asia. We to Asia. That’s China. Hong Kong. Yeah. Yeah. And then a lot of countries obviously will have small multiple big buyers, but not not enough to really sort of make a huge M m selling things. But I think the US market is still linerboard, I think would always remain king.

[00:37:54] Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Forget just how rich rich are you. Wealthy America. Absolutely. They love to spend it and they like to spend it all.

[00:38:04] So and that’s a market. You know, we’re doing more with America. And. Yeah.

[00:38:11] So that it’s the UK is a good market. That’s a very good, you know. London still like to think is that is the centre of the fine wine trade in the world. Some might argue with that, but it and put it put up some pretty good reasons. But I think we’re still a I think we’re I think in terms of how we deliver it.

[00:38:30] I think we understand the culture a lot better.

[00:38:32] Yeah. You know, the Americans are more in there. And so their wines, they’re also there’s the bid as the Bull Borbon says, the whisky’s you know, MSE is still socky and it’s still, you know, other whisky’s Japanese whiskies and whatever else. But we we do it best. We’ve got a history of then a Best Buy some. All right. Some fun quickfire questions and then we’ll have to wrap things on it. OK, so I’m going to give you individual regions and you give one way and you can even give a vintage year from that region. I’d love to drink before you kick the bucket. Not to be too grim, but hey. OK.

[00:39:07] So when it starts off board, I this is bucket list stuff. I guess I fuck it.

[00:39:15] Well we’re where we would go shovel forty seven to me that it could seventy five maybe all that could be shit. I just wanted. Yeah I wanted to show forty seven properly to shop.

[00:39:26] All right. A reason I know you love bargain. Yeah.

[00:39:31] Well I just shabbily I love Qabbani. I yeah. I just think that’s must have go to waste. Right.

[00:39:37] Great. Why as well. It is. Okay. Run, run, run, run, run. Oh no don’t be.

[00:39:45] We go la la would be a shot enough to pop or for a mature shot nerf I think mature but it’s good to be mature. Yes. Seventy eight.

[00:39:55] They sort of on us. Yes. That’s the guy to. Yeah. They’ve got some really expensive ceisler.

[00:40:01] But yeah that’s great size. So I say Grand Lionhead.

[00:40:05] Right. I mean I like everyday roads. I think they’re beautiful. You get a good way. Well it was well made of riches so importing one’s from planned to do which is a sort of small binda indicator. Right. And it’s real freshness to it. Yeah, those are. I think if you get the right vineyard and cater right. And without some of the made. Yeah.

[00:40:30] All right. Grew up in like Burgundy. Yeah. Right. Grow in their own. Yeah. Well definitely champagne.

[00:40:38] Not a massive champagne drinker. Best when I had the other day. The other day. Best one I’ve had recently. My brother bought it was Dom REO, not 98. Wow. And it is sensational but it was sensational. Was a couple of Christmas. Go ahead. That was my brother and that was the most memorable champagne I’ve had for a long time. I know. Great. It’s quite soporific. Champagne.

[00:41:01] All right. Fair enough. Each their own. But I can.

[00:41:04] Tuscany, Tuscany. Tuscany, Tuscany.

[00:41:08] Oh yeah. Or Italy as a whole.

[00:41:11] PiedMont Corvino wines I think is fantastic. Tuscany.

[00:41:22] In terms of.

[00:41:26] I like Selye. Actually, Salina’s is a very good one. Yeah, Ferring, that one. Yeah, if I haven’t heard much but when I about it, let’s see. What about Sasko 85. Had it. Had it.

[00:41:37] And it’s really good. I mean, I had it when it was a quarter of the price was still very expensive

[00:41:44] I had it I went to a wine tasting at Christie’s Sanskar one many years ago, probably 20 years ago. And they were showing it then. And me, it was one of these wines that I told the 85 says a car. It was one of my fish. People should buy it when they saw it in turn. I think I’ve been proved right. And how much it is now. What is it?

[00:42:07] Ten thousand, four, six or something I really like. You look a lot more. You look at more. I would say twelve to fifteen thousand. Depend on country location. Hadn’t ism got from there. It’s fast ponds I believe. Hong Kong you’re looking 25000 pounds. Yeah. So I have six twelve bottles and that’s dependent on March and. Yeah. The supplier as well. So it’s a lot of money. A lot of money. Yeah. Considering it probably costs only a couple hundred pounds back then.

[00:42:32] So as you can probably if you, if you do your, your research, some of the recent vintages of classic higher up there and they won’t be far off that quality of 85 when that and you know they’re probably twenty sixteen actually.

[00:42:47] That’s the one. Yeah.

[00:42:49] Giving up 100 points a that would be twelve hundred quid a case now so. Yeah. They’re running that too actually you know. So it’s easy to look out for those. So it’s definitely.

[00:42:58] And they’ve broken through. We’ve got something like Sanskar have broken through that into that market of they have a brand massive hand. And it was they bought a blend. Yes.

[00:43:13] But they’re very well organised. For sure. For sure. All right. So last couple of questions before we wrap things up then. You’ve just finished a long, tough but successful day in the auction room. What’s your go to food and wine pairing for that evening?

[00:43:32] Go to wine pairing to be got. What would it be?

[00:43:40] Would it be like I like a nice I like ice cream.

[00:43:43] It’s great if I go for like a decent, quiet, quiet, simples in that respect. But give me a decent steak and a decent boss of a classic board. I see it. I like a young board. I you know, I could 2015. Yeah. It’s usually in 2009 2010 with that on a steak or even if I’m in the big glamorous estates it’s ah give me some chips.

[00:44:04] That’d be simple isn’t it. Yeah. Good to be. Simple food. Yeah. Tough day in the office. Don’t want the needs to be done. It’s all right darling. Can you please get some steak on. Get the chips on. Yeah. Maybe in my salad I’ll bring home a bottle. Yeah. I don’t know for me that’s I’m sort of with you on that.

[00:44:22] I would have, I have had one the other day.

[00:44:26] It’s still my favourite favourite. She’s Grauwe and Burgundy. I think that’s got to be it.

[00:44:31] Does that feel good. Parent grandparent. Attention for miles around and I’ve got to tell my wife. Yeah, I just got it.

[00:44:43] I treat myself to one grouse a year and I could probably go to stretch to two, but I would think it might spoil my annual.

[00:44:51] Yeah. Annual might. All right. That’s probably. Yeah.

[00:44:55] And if you give yourself younger advice, give your younger self advice. Rochfort Go back inside. What would it be fruitful for.

[00:45:04] Wine. Food in the wine.

[00:45:06] It just is like a just as luck as a whole. Yeah. Maybe for for a career perspective or for wine.

[00:45:13] If I was telling someone going to the wine trade it would be take as many notes as you possibly can and just listen and and listen as much as you can to people. And I hear a lot of and I may be like this, I’m sure someone can correctly tell me I was. But I meet some young Y merchants who think they know a lot about wine.

[00:45:44] And I certainly don’t know a lot about wine. I know as much as I’ve learnt so far. It changes every minute. Yes, I think it’s to be it.

[00:45:54] I think with anything in life, be really humble. Great. I know there’s people who say no, you want to be swaggy, thanks, but I think you need to be humble. Yes. And life is just a little bit easier that way. You say you love them.

[00:46:12] Yeah. Brilliant. Yeah.

[00:46:15] And then lastly, if you if you were not involved in wine, full stop enough to wine, go back to when you was ten years old and you then trying to Talbert’s or Schussler Fee. What career do you think you’d be involved and what career would you like to be involved in if you wouldn’t?

[00:46:33] I know I have said I will. I have I do. So I think I’d like I’d quite like to have gone into the sort of the the diplomatic corps. I don’t think I would have got the results, the act. I don’t think I could have got that the exams did. But it’s something that I did think about. You know, it was something that I thought about all the way through school. But I think I needed better. I’m I’m not very good at exams.

[00:47:07] I work like this. Yeah. I’ve felt that last hurdle. It’s right for yourself.

[00:47:11] Yeah. But it’s been. I’m very pleased that when the wine industry I think it’s it does give you a lot of opportunities. Like everything at it, it has its it has some major faults and, you know, whatever career you get into it. But it’s giving me really interesting opportunities. But I think is I think you could be with why you’ve got to be entrepreneurial. And I’d, I’d like to be a. I do think I’m a natural entrepreneur in any way to who is but who is. You learn as you go. But I think you if you go into the wine business, you do need that. A bit of an entrepreneurial flair floated down there.

[00:47:52] Good advice. That’s great advice. No saké. Well, Mark, I will let you go and grab your by six. All right. Good luck with the Stream League OSFI next time round.

[00:48:02] Yeah. The next caution’s in November. So I’ll let you know what we’ve got. And when they saw, accepts and fly sport, I maybe that’s what we can of do office. Definitely need to do it every day.

[00:48:14] No. No economy mate. Exactly.

[00:48:18] You can have podcasts you know, for now as well. Barça. We’ll see. That’s good. Thank you very much. When he’s gone and all of us. Enough. Good stuff.